[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":413},["ShallowReactive",2],{"project-16540529":3},{"id":4,"name":5,"line":6,"line_source":7,"title":8,"url":9,"domain":10,"maker":11,"posted_at":12,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rank_in_year":16,"shown_in_year":17,"top":18,"tier":19,"category":20,"subcategory":21,"format":22,"keywords":23,"reception":29,"sentiment":30,"stance_mix":31,"scored_comments":36,"aspects":37,"strip":46,"post_text":48,"what":49,"said":96,"maker_in_thread":199,"shape":209,"grid":212,"attempts":374,"same_week":375,"maker_shows":39,"maker_hidden":405,"reader_version":406,"card":407},"16540529","Subform","A UI layout tool","title","Show HN: Subform, a UI layout tool","https:\u002F\u002Fsubformapp.com\u002F","subformapp.com","lynaghk",1520461412,2018,219,61,154,2155,8,"notable","dev_tools","ui layout design tool","desktop_app",[24,25,26,27,28],"ui layout","css alternative","layout engine","design tool","flexbox alternative","mixed",0.102,{"positive":32,"neutral":33,"mixed":34,"critical":35},10,19,4,6,39,{"idea":38,"pricing":40,"docs":42,"design":44,"execution":45},{"positive":34,"critical":39},1,{"positive":41,"critical":34},3,{"positive":43,"critical":39},0,{"positive":43,"critical":43},{"positive":43,"critical":43},[43,47,41,47,43,41,47,41,47,43,43,43,43,47,47,43,41,41,43,41,41,39,41,43,39,47,39,43,41,41,39,43,41,41,41,41,47,41,41,41],5,null,{"problem":50,"audience":57,"pricing":67,"motivation":74,"time_to_build":48,"stack":78,"openness":93,"stage":94,"team_size":95},{"value":51,"source":52,"evidence":53},"Tweak-reload cycle makes dynamic UI layout hard to design","maker",[54],{"id":55,"by":11,"text":56},"16540533","Hi HN, author here (along with RyLuke). We launched Subform on Kickstarter in 2016, but are just now opening up our beta to the public. Subform's focus is on layout. Dynamic…",{"value":58,"source":59,"evidence":60},"Designers and developers building UI layouts","inferred",[61,64],{"id":62,"by":11,"text":63},"16541241","Check it out, and if it doesn't work for your team we'd be happy to issue a refund. Re: WYSIWYG CSS, we initially started w\u002F flexbox but things like the difference between…",{"id":65,"by":11,"text":66},"16541345","We need to focus on folks who're sufficiently motivated to solve this problem. If a refundable $25 is too high a hurdle, it's unlikely those folks will actually attempt to use…",{"value":68,"source":52,"evidence":69},"Paid beta, roughly $25 refundable per commenters; layout engine free for non-commercial use",[70,71],{"id":65,"by":11,"text":66},{"id":72,"by":11,"text":73},"16542189","The runtime engine already free for non-commercial usage: https:\u002F\u002Fgithub.com\u002Flynaghk\u002Fsubform-layout\u002Fblob\u002Fmaster\u002FLICENSE Or am I misunderstanding your question? Re: designing for…",{"value":75,"source":52,"evidence":76},"Make dynamic layout design more visual and faster",[77],{"id":55,"by":11,"text":56},[79,85,89],{"value":80,"source":52,"evidence":81},"Clojure",[82],{"id":83,"by":11,"text":84},"16542554","The desktop app is mostly Clojure, with a handful of Rust for OS interop for things like the clipboard access and file watching. The embeddable engine is written in Rust.",{"value":86,"source":52,"evidence":87},"Rust",[88],{"id":83,"by":11,"text":84},{"value":90,"source":52,"evidence":91},"WebAssembly",[92],{"id":55,"by":11,"text":56},"unknown","beta","team",{"praise":97,"objections":121,"requests":148,"questions":157,"alternatives":176},[98,110],{"value":99,"source":100,"evidence":101},"Honest about use cases where the tool is not a fit","commenter",[102,106],{"id":103,"by":104,"text":105},"16542066","TheAceOfHearts","Not in the target demographic, but it certainly looks interesting. Over the years I grew used to CSS, and generally find it's good enough for my needs. I find it incredibly…",{"id":107,"by":108,"text":109},"16543008","kowdermeister","Kudos for releasing it on Windows too, too many desing \u002F UX tools simply exclude it. Also, I appreciate the honesty here: https:\u002F\u002Fsubformapp.com\u002Fwhy-not-subform\u002F",{"value":111,"source":100,"evidence":112},"Good idea to address CSS design pain",[113,117],{"id":114,"by":115,"text":116},"16541908","iambateman","First, this tool is brilliant. I’ve been a Front end dev for 7 years and I still google “centering in the unknown” every time because it’s easier than remembering the properties.…",{"id":118,"by":119,"text":120},"16541282","aidanhs","This seems like a good place to say I really enjoyed watching the video of your talk from Deconstruct Conf 2017…",[122,137],{"value":123,"source":100,"evidence":124},"Paid beta is a barrier; wants a free trial",[125,129,133],{"id":126,"by":127,"text":128},"16541287","austinkhale","Why not open it to a free trial? I’d like to try it out as well. I don’t like the whole refund song & dance game.",{"id":130,"by":131,"text":132},"16541850","ccleve","Disagree. First, I won't say your product is a commodity, but there are many, many, many layout and design tools out there. I'm not going to pay $25 to evaluate each one. It's as…",{"id":134,"by":135,"text":136},"16541490","vogt","I consider myself a big fan of design tools. I really want to try yours, but I can't bring myself to pay for a beta. I might consider a paid trial ($5\u002F2 weeks) or something,…",{"value":138,"source":100,"evidence":139},"Price is high compared with competitors",[140,144],{"id":141,"by":142,"text":143},"16542077","slama","The issue is that Subform is 3x the price of Sketch (which lets you keep your current version when your license runs out) and 2x as expensive as Figma Pro and Framer. Subform is…",{"id":145,"by":146,"text":147},"16543056","Bishonen88","Still, having the whole adobe suite costs ~$25\u002Fmonth (if you wait until a promotion) Having the whole Jetbrains Suite costs ~$25\u002Fmonth Sublime costs ~$70 Leonardo (a drawing…",[149],{"value":150,"source":100,"evidence":151},"Free trial option",[152,153],{"id":126,"by":127,"text":128},{"id":154,"by":155,"text":156},"16541183","jbryson3","Looks like a well thought out tool. Though to get me or my team to adopt it I'd need at least a sprint or two of a free trial. I hope it gains adoption. It probably says more…",[158,169],{"value":159,"source":100,"evidence":160},"How does it differ from Webflow and similar tools",[161,165],{"id":162,"by":163,"text":164},"16542664","acmecorps","So, what's the difference between this and Webflow?",{"id":166,"by":167,"text":168},"16545283","tsumnia","Realistically, how is it any different than any of these types of tools? How does Subform differ from Webflow and why should Webflow users switch? Or is it more of a \"hope the…",{"value":170,"source":100,"evidence":171},"Is there responsive breakpoint support",[172],{"id":173,"by":174,"text":175},"16543443","myguysi","Looks great and I may well give it a try. I have one question though which I can't seem to find any mention of from the site - is there any way to define breakpoints for…",[177,181,188,192],{"value":178,"source":100,"evidence":179},"Webflow",[180],{"id":162,"by":163,"text":164},{"value":182,"source":100,"evidence":183},"Sketch",[184],{"id":185,"by":186,"text":187},"16541361","kidfiji","I believe they're aligning themselves to revenue models similar to Sketch[1], Figma[2], Framer[3], and a quite a few other competitors in the same space [1]…",{"value":189,"source":100,"evidence":190},"Figma",[191],{"id":185,"by":186,"text":187},{"value":193,"source":100,"evidence":194},"Pagedraw",[195],{"id":196,"by":197,"text":198},"16543084","sandGorgon","Is this similar to Pagedraw ? https:\u002F\u002Fpagedraw.io\u002F",{"comments":200,"answered":35,"key":201},11,[202,203,206],{"id":55,"text":56},{"id":204,"text":205},"16541304","Thanks! I should also say that I think CSS is great --- there's nothing like trying to come up with your own solution to make you appreciate the tradeoffs that other folks have…",{"id":207,"text":208},"16541469","We don't have a license fee or anything like that. Right now we're working directly with everyone in the beta to understand their process and make things work. We've added…",{"commenters":210,"max_depth":18,"maker_replies":200,"first_comment_mins":43,"lifespan_hours":211},45,35,[213,215,216,218,222,223,226,229,233,237,239,242,243,245,249,253,255,257,260,262,264,268,272,275,278,279,282,286,290,293,294,296,299,300,302,303,305,306,307,310,313,314,317,320,322,323,326,328,330,333,338,339,341,346,349,354,358,362,366,368,372],[55,43,43,214,11,39],"maker\u002Fpositive\u002Fidea",[118,43,47,214,119,43],[204,43,43,217,11,39],"commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[219,43,41,220,221,43],"16541425","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fpricing","mamcx",[207,43,43,220,11,39],[224,43,47,225,221,43],"16541859","project\u002Fpositive\u002Fidea",[227,43,43,228,11,39],"16541896","maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[230,43,41,231,232,43],"16542355","project\u002Fmixed\u002Fpricing","lewisl9029",[234,43,41,235,236,43],"16544332","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea","tootie",[103,39,47,238,104,43],"project\u002Fpositive\u002Fpricing",[240,39,41,220,241,43],"16542163","RyLuke",[72,39,43,220,11,39],[114,244,47,225,115,43],2,[246,244,43,247,248,43],"16542074","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fdocs","switz",[250,244,43,251,252,43],"16542244","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","jonahx",[254,244,43,251,248,43],"16542275",[256,244,43,251,11,39],"16542389",[258,244,43,251,259,43],"16542479","radus",[261,244,43,251,248,43],"16542695",[263,244,47,225,115,43],"16544431",[265,244,43,266,267,43],"16545560","other\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","teleclimber",[269,244,47,270,271,43],"16546924","maker\u002Fpositive\u002Fnone","exolymph",[273,244,43,251,274,43],"16544974","RobertRoberts",[276,244,43,251,277,43],"16542226","wunderg",[134,41,41,231,135,43],[280,41,41,220,281,43],"16541566","Breefield",[283,41,41,284,285,43],"16543088","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fdocs","tabdon",[287,34,43,288,289,43],"16542368","other\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea","huula",[291,47,41,220,292,43],"16541279","news_to_me",[185,47,41,220,186,43],[141,47,39,295,142,43],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fpricing",[297,47,47,238,298,43],"16542915","pavlov",[145,47,39,295,146,43],[301,47,43,266,298,43],"16543554",[154,35,41,231,155,43],[62,35,43,304,11,39],"project\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign",[126,35,39,295,127,43],[65,35,43,220,11,39],[308,35,47,238,309,43],"16541659","ryanSrich",[311,35,41,220,312,43],"16541767","colmvp",[130,35,39,295,131,43],[315,35,43,251,316,43],"16542164","subatomic",[318,35,41,304,319,43],"16543901","adisinom",[173,321,41,304,174,43],7,[162,18,41,235,163,43],[324,18,41,235,325,43],"16544145","Kagerjay",[166,18,39,327,167,43],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fidea",[329,18,43,235,11,39],"16548849",[331,18,41,235,332,43],"16550616","deltron3030",[334,335,41,336,337,43],"16542900",9,"project\u002Fmixed\u002Fexecution","porker",[196,32,41,235,197,43],[107,200,47,340,108,43],"project\u002Fpositive\u002Fnone",[342,343,39,344,345,43],"16541680",12,"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fdocs","nickreese",[347,343,41,348,241,43],"16541758","maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fdocs",[350,351,41,352,353,43],"16544116",13,"project\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","dustingetz",[355,356,47,270,357,43],"16542104",14,"_mhr_",[359,360,41,220,361,43],"16543032",15,"rail4you",[363,364,41,352,365,43],"16541569",16,"asdsa5325",[367,364,43,352,11,39],"16541632",[369,364,41,370,371,43],"16542535","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fexecution","jakejscott",[83,364,43,373,11,39],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fexecution",[],[376,381,386,391,396,400],{"id":377,"name":378,"points":379,"category":380},"16535358","Mathpix",456,"ai",{"id":382,"name":383,"points":384,"category":385},"16490595","Graphite",330,"productivity",{"id":387,"name":388,"points":389,"category":390},"16521385","Hearth",315,"infrastructure",{"id":392,"name":393,"points":394,"category":395},"16529557","Investment Calculator",308,"finance_crypto",{"id":397,"name":398,"points":399,"category":20},"16513916","Emacs Anywhere",248,{"id":401,"name":402,"points":403,"category":404},"16520955","Hacking a Mercedes GLA Class Ride-on kids car",221,"hardware",false,"v2",{"id":408,"name":5,"line":6,"ai":405,"cat":20,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rec":29,"s":409,"top":18,"kw":410,"maker":11,"domain":10,"tier":19,"attempts":43,"strip":411,"url":9,"mix":412,"praise":99,"objection":123,"sub":21},16540529,0.1,[24,25,26,27,28],"0535035350000550330331301510331033335333",[32,33,34,35],1794036564091]