[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":435},["ShallowReactive",2],{"project-20919138":3},{"id":4,"name":5,"line":6,"line_source":7,"title":8,"url":9,"domain":10,"maker":11,"posted_at":12,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rank_in_year":16,"shown_in_year":17,"top":18,"tier":19,"category":20,"subcategory":21,"format":22,"keywords":23,"reception":27,"sentiment":28,"stance_mix":29,"scored_comments":34,"aspects":35,"strip":43,"post_text":45,"what":46,"said":56,"maker_in_thread":153,"shape":165,"grid":168,"attempts":396,"same_week":397,"maker_shows":244,"maker_hidden":427,"reader_version":428,"card":429},"20919138","wehatecaptchas","we’ll keep the bots out without annoying your users","title","Show HN: wehatecaptchas – we’ll keep the bots out without annoying your users","https:\u002F\u002Fwehatecaptchas.com","wehatecaptchas.com","1mbsite",1568043495,2019,136,80,334,2195,16,"notable","security_privacy","captcha alternative","web_app",[21,24,25,26],"proof of work","bot protection","spam prevention","roasted",-0.526,{"positive":30,"neutral":31,"mixed":32,"critical":33},3,14,1,28,46,{"performance":36,"idea":38,"execution":39,"pricing":41,"design":42},{"positive":32,"critical":37},9,{"positive":32,"critical":18},{"positive":40,"critical":32},0,{"positive":32,"critical":32},{"positive":40,"critical":32},[32,30,40,40,40,40,40,40,40,32,32,32,32,30,32,32,32,32,32,44,32,32,40,30,32,32,32,30,32,44,32,30,44,32,32,40,32,30,32,32],5,null,{"problem":47,"audience":45,"pricing":45,"motivation":45,"time_to_build":45,"stack":53,"openness":54,"stage":55,"team_size":54},{"value":48,"source":49,"evidence":50},"Keeping bots and spam out of forms without annoying users with captchas.","maker",[51],{"id":52},"post",[],"unknown","launched",{"praise":57,"objections":70,"requests":116,"questions":129,"alternatives":137},[58],{"value":59,"source":60,"evidence":61},"Idea of replacing captchas is appreciated","commenter",[62,66],{"id":63,"by":64,"text":65},"20919581","surds","About 12-13 seconds on a top-of-the-line Mac. I'd say that is slow. Besides, I don't really have much of a problem with Google's CAPTCHA.",{"id":67,"by":68,"text":69},"20921084","camgunz","Great idea, down with captchas! Can you do this asynchronously? It does take a long time, but I only noticed because I clicked on something and waited for something to happen. If…",[71,90,105],{"value":72,"source":60,"evidence":73},"Proof-of-work is too slow on phones and laptops",[74,78,82,86],{"id":75,"by":76,"text":77},"20919466","daveoflynn","It took about 30s to ‘solve’ the captcha on my iPhone XR, with minimal feedback as to why it was taking so long. That was pretty annoying. If I hadn’t been on a site demoing…",{"id":79,"by":80,"text":81},"20919378","esnard","The captcha is considered solved if the browser finds N nonces (with 0 \u003C N ≤ 10) where a SHA-256 hash starts with 20 bits set to 0 in less than 5 minutes. A nonce is valid on…",{"id":83,"by":84,"text":85},"20920266","jedberg","> It works by requiring your computer to solve complex mathematical equations in the background. It's a quick process for legitimate users, but is slow and expensive for…",{"id":87,"by":88,"text":89},"20922561","herpderperator","I just tried it. I noticed the CPU on my i9 MBP went from 65C (idle) to 99C for at least 20 seconds. The fan turned on. It felt like it was mining bitcoins in my browser. I'm not…",{"value":91,"source":60,"evidence":92},"GPUs and bot farms can solve the puzzle far faster than users",[93,97,101],{"id":94,"by":95,"text":96},"20920427","buildzr","Okay, so you do PoW in browser on CPUs - but that's likely much slower than a simple C implementation of the same algorithm and miles slower than a GPU, or worse, if it becomes…",{"id":98,"by":99,"text":100},"20920364","hn_throwaway_99","Yes. There have been other analyses of recaptcha before, but it is an incredibly detailed, complex piece of software. \"Old school\" captchas (i.e. have a human do something that…",{"id":102,"by":103,"text":104},"20919544","unilynx","Just like hashcash trying to prevent mailspam... you just need a bigger botnet. Spammers were never spending their own energy\u002Fmoney. Well, at least there are less CPU cycles left…",{"value":106,"source":60,"evidence":107},"Hashcash-style schemes have been tried and do not stop spam",[108,112],{"id":109,"by":110,"text":111},"20919573","lexs","This concept has been proposed by Dwork and Naor in 1992 to fight email spam. [0] [0] Dwork, Cynthia, and Moni Naor. \"Pricing via processing or combatting junk mail.\" Annual…",{"id":113,"by":114,"text":115},"20925483","aabbcc1241","And it's proven that proof-of-work doesn't work to stop spam…",[117,121],{"value":118,"source":60,"evidence":119},"Run the proof-of-work asynchronously on page load",[120],{"id":67,"by":68,"text":69},{"value":122,"source":60,"evidence":123},"Lower the difficulty or show better progress feedback",[124,125],{"id":75,"by":76,"text":77},{"id":126,"by":127,"text":128},"20919476","sebst","> My phone took 30s to validate the captcha used in the demo I tried it on my phone as well and I thought it did not work, because the progress bar did not move. I didn't even…",[130],{"value":131,"source":60,"evidence":132},"Why not mine crypto with the computation",[133],{"id":134,"by":135,"text":136},"20919308","ocdtrekkie","On the \"are you mining crypto\" question, my thought was: Why aren't they? wehatecaptchas paid API sevice could be free if the math problem being solved was profitable...",[138,143],{"value":139,"source":60,"evidence":140},"Google reCAPTCHA",[141,142],{"id":63,"by":64,"text":65},{"id":98,"by":99,"text":100},{"value":144,"source":60,"evidence":145},"Hashcash",[146,149],{"id":147,"by":99,"text":148},"20920286","Hashcash, https:\u002F\u002Fen.wikipedia.org\u002Fwiki\u002FHashcash , is specifically referenced in the bitcoin white paper as the proof-of-work strategy.",{"id":150,"by":151,"text":152},"20922037","pulkitsh1234","basically hashcash (https:\u002F\u002Fen.wikipedia.org\u002Fwiki\u002FHashcash#How_it_works)?",{"comments":30,"answered":154,"key":155},2,[156,159,162],{"id":157,"text":158},"20923182","Not necessarily. Somebody can spam your form from multiple hosts. If you enforce a proof of work they will all need to work for it.",{"id":160,"text":161},"20932205","Because there’s more work involved.",{"id":163,"text":164},"20923217","I’ve tweaked difficulty to be easier. Start the difficulty off at 1 and increase when necessary. It should be faster now as a result. It also starts the process on page load now…",{"commenters":166,"max_depth":37,"maker_replies":30,"first_comment_mins":167,"lifespan_hours":33},60,18,[169,173,175,177,181,184,187,190,193,195,198,200,202,204,207,209,212,214,216,220,224,227,229,232,233,237,240,243,246,247,248,250,253,255,259,262,265,267,269,273,276,280,283,286,289,291,293,296,300,303,306,307,309,312,314,316,318,320,324,329,331,333,334,337,340,344,347,351,354,357,361,365,368,373,378,380,384,385,388,392],[170,40,40,171,172,40],"20919333","other\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","jszymborski",[79,32,32,174,80,40],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fperformance",[126,32,30,176,127,40],"project\u002Fmixed\u002Fperformance",[178,32,40,179,180,40],"20919492","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","derefr",[182,32,40,171,183,40],"20919606","johnmaguire2013",[185,32,40,171,186,40],"20919756","eloff",[188,32,40,171,189,40],"20920007","magashna",[191,32,40,171,192,40],"20920012","frei",[194,32,40,171,186,40],"20920746",[196,32,40,171,197,40],"20920047","askmike",[199,32,40,171,186,40],"20920754",[201,32,40,171,197,40],"20920860",[203,32,40,179,186,40],"20922899",[205,32,40,171,206,40],"20922014","xvector",[208,32,40,179,183,40],"20922053",[210,32,40,171,211,40],"20924114","geofft",[213,32,40,171,183,40],"20927155",[215,32,40,171,211,40],"20928640",[217,32,30,218,219,40],"20926847","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fperformance","Wowfunhappy",[221,32,32,222,223,40],"20919501","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fidea","NullPrefix",[225,32,32,222,226,40],"20920533","SilasX",[75,154,32,228,76,40],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fexecution",[230,154,32,174,231,40],"20919495","dylz",[83,30,32,174,84,40],[234,235,32,222,236,40],"20922267",4,"Smithalicious",[238,44,32,222,239,40],"20923254","ddtaylor",[241,44,40,179,242,40],"20927151","patrickmcnamara",[109,244,30,245,110,40],6,"project\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[147,244,30,245,99,40],[113,244,32,222,114,40],[94,249,32,174,95,40],7,[251,249,30,218,252,40],"20923163","icebraining",[254,249,32,222,114,40],"20925497",[256,257,32,174,258,40],"20919516",8,"DethNinja",[260,37,32,222,261,40],"20922536","jimnotgym",[263,37,40,179,264,40],"20923398","ComputerGuru",[266,37,32,174,114,40],"20925510",[134,268,30,245,135,40],10,[270,268,44,271,272,40],"20919327","project\u002Fpositive\u002Fpricing","prophesi",[274,268,30,275,135,40],"20919339","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fpricing",[277,268,32,278,279,40],"20919351","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fpricing","sp332",[281,268,40,179,282,40],"20919432","spuz",[284,268,40,179,285,40],"20921442","petters",[287,268,32,222,288,40],"20919428","thexa4",[290,268,40,179,135,40],"20921048",[292,268,40,179,114,40],"20925594",[294,268,40,179,295,40],"20921052","bluesign",[297,298,30,245,299,40],"20919344",11,"rolltiide",[301,298,40,179,302,40],"20919406","Jernik",[304,298,32,174,305,40],"20919444","DJBunnies",[102,298,32,222,103,40],[308,298,30,218,299,40],"20919603",[310,298,32,222,311,40],"20921937","yellowapple",[157,298,40,313,11,32],"project\u002Fpositive\u002Fidea",[315,298,30,245,311,40],"20923606",[160,298,40,317,11,32],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[319,298,32,222,311,40],"20932368",[321,322,32,222,323,40],"20924234",12,"kabacha",[325,326,30,327,328,40],"20919450",13,"project\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign","psychometry",[67,31,44,330,68,40],"project\u002Fpositive\u002Fperformance",[87,332,32,174,88,40],15,[63,18,32,174,64,40],[335,18,40,179,336,40],"20919776","windsurfer",[338,18,30,218,339,40],"20919968","rootusrootus",[341,18,40,342,343,40],"20920649","other\u002Fneutral\u002Fprivacy","t0astbread",[345,18,44,313,346,40],"20921583","nfRfqX5n",[348,349,40,171,350,40],"20923005",17,"diegoperini",[352,167,32,222,353,40],"20919483","ape4",[355,167,40,356,172,40],"20919609","commenter\u002Fcritical\u002Fidea",[358,359,32,222,360,40],"20923329",19,"tptacek",[362,363,40,171,364,40],"20924034",20,"badrabbit",[163,366,40,367,11,32],21,"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fperformance",[369,370,30,371,372,40],"20920103",22,"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fexecution","joobus",[374,375,32,376,377,40],"20919580",23,"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fdesign","nailer",[150,379,30,245,151,40],24,[381,382,40,171,383,40],"20919451",25,"pictur",[98,382,32,222,99,40],[386,382,40,387,114,40],"20925578","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[389,390,32,222,391,40],"20921176",26,"jonas21",[393,394,30,245,395,40],"20919423",27,"VMG",[],[398,403,408,413,418,423],{"id":399,"name":400,"points":401,"category":402},"20923792","augmented-ui",775,"dev_tools",{"id":404,"name":405,"points":406,"category":407},"20929801","3dforreddit",720,"consumer_social",{"id":409,"name":410,"points":411,"category":412},"20914236","Senior 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