[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":980},["ShallowReactive",2],{"project-20985429":3},{"id":4,"name":5,"line":6,"line_source":7,"title":8,"url":9,"domain":10,"maker":11,"posted_at":12,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rank_in_year":16,"shown_in_year":17,"top":18,"tier":19,"category":20,"subcategory":21,"format":22,"keywords":23,"reception":29,"sentiment":30,"stance_mix":31,"scored_comments":36,"aspects":37,"strip":54,"post_text":55,"what":56,"said":100,"maker_in_thread":224,"shape":237,"grid":240,"attempts":942,"same_week":943,"maker_shows":49,"maker_hidden":971,"reader_version":972,"card":973},"20985429","Darklang","We will absolutely support light mode, and we plan to deal with many other accessibility concerns (I touch on that very briefly at the end of my video).","maker","Show HN: Darklang","https:\u002F\u002Fmedium.com\u002F@darklang\u002Funveiling-dark-e0be6f1e0b06","medium.com","pbiggar",1568649645,2019,326,253,88,2195,5,"legend","dev_tools","backend programming language","web_app",[24,25,26,27,28],"backend language","deployless","serverless","feature flags","low-code backend","mixed",-0.217,{"positive":32,"neutral":33,"mixed":34,"critical":35},30,35,14,67,146,{"idea":38,"execution":41,"design":44,"performance":47,"privacy":50,"pricing":52,"docs":53},{"positive":39,"critical":40},15,44,{"positive":42,"critical":43},6,3,{"positive":45,"critical":46},4,8,{"positive":48,"critical":49},0,1,{"positive":48,"critical":51},2,{"positive":48,"critical":18},{"positive":48,"critical":48},[49,48,48,18,49,49,45,43,45,51,43,49,49,49,43,43,49,49,49,51,45,51,49,51,51,45,49,45,43,49,45,49,51,51,43,45,51,51,49,43],null,{"problem":57,"audience":63,"pricing":69,"motivation":78,"time_to_build":55,"stack":82,"openness":98,"stage":99,"team_size":98},{"value":58,"source":7,"evidence":59},"Backends are too hard to build; accidental complexity of infrastructure, deployment and APIs.",[60],{"id":61,"by":11,"text":62},"20986817","Specifically in the context of fundraising, we said \"backends are way too hard to build, we can remove all the accidental complexity of infrastructure, deployment, and APIs\".…",{"value":64,"source":7,"evidence":65},"Developers building backends",[66],{"id":67,"by":11,"text":68},"20986227","We do intend the HN audience to love this too. Our target audience is developers building backends. We don't expect we'll wrestle people from their Emacs, so we're definitely not…",{"value":70,"source":7,"evidence":71},"Usage-based infrastructure pricing planned; free tier for small use; not yet decided.",[72,75],{"id":73,"by":11,"text":74},"20986556","1. The \"foreign function interface\" in Dark is HTTP. So to do machine learning, either use a service that for it, or put your ML stuff in a container with a HTTP wrapper around…",{"id":76,"by":11,"text":77},"20988797","Absolutely! We don't have any pricing right now because we have not done any work to figure out what the pricing will be.",{"value":79,"source":7,"evidence":80},"Remove accidental complexity of infrastructure, deployment and APIs from backend development.",[81],{"id":61,"by":11,"text":62},[83,92],{"value":84,"source":7,"evidence":85},"Google Cloud Platform (GCP)",[86,89],{"id":87,"by":11,"text":88},"20987943","GCP.",{"id":90,"by":11,"text":91},"20988301","We're not suitable for GDPR compliant applications yet. Now that we've got Dark actually working and shown to the world, we can start addressing it. Currently hosted in GCP, US…",{"value":93,"source":7,"evidence":94},"Postgres (datastore is a thin layer over it)",[95],{"id":96,"by":11,"text":97},"20987384","> Can we access the data store\u002Four data outside of dark? Yes and no. You can easily put an API in front of it so that you can expose it however you like, download it, etc. But…","unknown","beta",{"praise":101,"objections":110,"requests":159,"questions":177,"alternatives":200},[102],{"value":103,"source":104,"evidence":105},"Ambitious project with interesting ideas","commenter",[106],{"id":107,"by":108,"text":109},"20986338","tiborsaas","I applaud the effort for the project because it's really ambitious. The delivery at this point on the other hand makes me a bit skeptical. I've watched the hello world app a few…",[111,126,133,144,151],{"value":112,"source":104,"evidence":113},"Proprietary language; reluctance to learn a language owned by a startup",[114,118,122],{"id":115,"by":116,"text":117},"20987505","nnq","Is there an open source version of the language? ...bc I'm not touching a programming language with a ten foot pole if it hasn't got at least two implementations, and at least…",{"id":119,"by":120,"text":121},"20986441","thesausageking","> Dark is a holistic programming language No thank you. There's zero chance I'm going to learn and build anything in a language owned by a startup.",{"id":123,"by":124,"text":125},"20987751","jamesb93","They are 'allowing' people into a private beta of a programming language? Coupled with the fact it is not open source and has a bunch of fad ad-tech videos on the front page this…",{"value":127,"source":104,"evidence":128},"Database abstraction may not scale; no joins or transactions",[129],{"id":130,"by":131,"text":132},"20986639","ryanworl","How confident are you that your database abstraction is going to fulfill the needs of someone with anything more than a few trivial query workloads? I didn't hear much about the…",{"value":134,"source":104,"evidence":135},"Lock-in and walled garden concerns",[136,140],{"id":137,"by":138,"text":139},"20987826","md5person","Who is this for exactly? I don't see how the target can be entirely non-technical people, since this still assumes some knowledge around…",{"id":141,"by":142,"text":143},"20988436","tmikaeld","We have no insight as to what the actual costs of running the infrastructure is. Dark can basically ask for any numbers they want and you'd have to pay it if you build something…",{"value":145,"source":104,"evidence":146},"Security not emphasized on site",[147],{"id":148,"by":149,"text":150},"20988617","tnolet","What scares me is that their whole site doesn't mention the word \"security\" once. Also \"testing\" is in the FAQ as a \"we're working on it\"-item.",{"value":152,"source":104,"evidence":153},"Unclear target audience",[154,155],{"id":137,"by":138,"text":139},{"id":156,"by":157,"text":158},"20988002","carlosdp","I think the fact it maintains the \"backend\u002Ffrontend\" separation makes it an awkward product solution imo. Dark being a proprietary language means most \"experienced\" or…",[160,167,171],{"value":161,"source":104,"evidence":162},"Light mode support",[163],{"id":164,"by":165,"text":166},"20986116","Stratoscope","Does (or will) Dark have a light mode? Given the name and seeing the dark mode screenshots in the article, I wonder. This is an honest worry for an older developer like me. When…",{"value":168,"source":104,"evidence":169},"Open source version of the language",[170],{"id":115,"by":116,"text":117},{"value":172,"source":104,"evidence":173},"Example-based testing and callgraph views",[174],{"id":175,"by":11,"text":176},"21000433","Great suggestions, you'll be happy to know many of these are on the roadmap, and some have already been done! > Have multiple projectional views of the system, Some amount of…",[178,182,189,196],{"value":179,"source":104,"evidence":180},"Is there an open source version?",[181],{"id":115,"by":116,"text":117},{"value":183,"source":104,"evidence":184},"What is the pricing structure?",[185],{"id":186,"by":187,"text":188},"20986176","andrewnc","I got the email, and read through the post, it seems awesome. I remember the original HN post and am excited to see the progress. I have a few random questions. 1. What is the…",{"value":190,"source":104,"evidence":191},"How does version management work?",[192],{"id":193,"by":194,"text":195},"20985893","fernandohur","How does version management work with dark? Do I get access to the \"raw text files\"?",{"value":197,"source":104,"evidence":198},"Does it scale and support joins and transactions?",[199],{"id":130,"by":131,"text":132},[201,207,214,218],{"value":202,"source":104,"evidence":203},"Netlify",[204],{"id":205,"by":11,"text":206},"20988527","> willing to sacrifice the ecosystem you get from open-source\u002Fwidely adopted languages\u002Fframeworks for a marginal amount of convenience over something like Netlify Obviously, no…",{"value":208,"source":104,"evidence":209},"Parse",[210],{"id":211,"by":212,"text":213},"20987803","harebear","I'm recalling the disaster that was the Parse framework. What makes this any different?",{"value":215,"source":104,"evidence":216},"No-code\u002Flow-code solutions",[217],{"id":156,"by":157,"text":158},{"value":219,"source":104,"evidence":220},"Zapier",[221],{"id":222,"by":11,"text":223},"20987230","Thank you for the kind words! > The one thing that didn't get covered in the \"Dark in action\" video that should have is where do the twilio\u002Fslack tokens get stored? I'm sure…",{"comments":225,"answered":226,"key":227},42,27,[228,231,234],{"id":229,"text":230},"20986198","We will absolutely support light mode, and we plan to deal with many other accessibility concerns (I touch on that very briefly at the end of my video). This sort of inclusivity…",{"id":232,"text":233},"20986497","Thank you for the kind offer! I will definitely reach out.",{"id":235,"text":236},"20986481","We have user tested, and a ton of people have built full apps with it. That said, you are correct that it can be a rough experience at times, which is one of the reasons we're in…",{"commenters":238,"max_depth":42,"maker_replies":225,"first_comment_mins":49,"lifespan_hours":239},139,292,[241,243,247,250,253,256,258,260,263,266,269,272,274,277,280,283,286,289,291,293,296,299,302,305,309,312,314,317,320,322,324,327,330,333,334,338,342,345,348,350,352,354,357,359,362,365,368,371,374,377,381,383,385,388,392,393,396,398,401,405,408,411,414,416,418,419,421,423,425,428,430,433,435,437,440,443,446,449,451,453,457,460,463,467,470,471,473,476,478,481,484,486,489,491,493,496,499,501,503,505,508,510,512,514,516,519,522,525,529,533,535,538,541,544,546,549,553,555,557,559,562,565,567,569,573,574,576,578,580,582,585,589,592,594,595,598,601,604,605,608,611,614,616,618,620,622,625,627,629,631,634,637,639,641,643,645,646,649,650,653,657,660,664,668,672,677,679,682,684,688,692,695,696,700,701,705,707,709,713,715,716,718,720,722,724,726,730,734,739,741,743,747,750,754,757,760,764,766,768,770,772,775,778,782,784,786,789,794,798,800,804,808,812,815,819,823,827,829,833,835,838,839,843,847,849,854,857,861,864,868,872,876,880,882,886,890,894,897,900,903,907,909,912,914,916,918,921,925,929,932,936,940],[115,48,49,242,116,48],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fidea",[244,48,48,245,246,48],"20987560","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","falcolas",[248,48,48,245,249,48],"20987631","eikenberry",[251,48,48,245,252,48],"20987682","CameronNemo",[254,48,48,245,255,48],"20987700","muricula",[257,48,48,245,249,48],"20987802",[259,48,48,245,255,48],"20989743",[261,48,48,245,262,48],"20989860","giancarlostoro",[264,48,48,265,116,48],"20987679","other\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[267,48,48,265,268,48],"20988249","hobofan",[270,48,48,265,271,48],"20989459","karmakaze",[273,48,48,265,271,48],"21002727",[275,48,48,265,276,48],"20990729","ChrisRackauckas",[278,48,48,265,279,48],"20988250","cultofmetatron",[281,48,48,265,282,48],"20989297","jimbokun",[284,48,48,265,285,48],"20987771","ainar-g",[287,48,48,265,288,48],"20987879","weberc2",[290,48,48,265,285,48],"20987977",[292,48,48,265,288,48],"20989086",[294,48,48,265,295,48],"20989005","ejmg",[297,48,48,265,298,48],"20989042","muizelaar",[300,48,48,265,301,48],"20989582","rdc12",[303,48,48,265,304,48],"20987776","TazeTSchnitzel",[306,48,18,307,308,48],"20988361","project\u002Fpositive\u002Fidea","btown",[310,48,48,245,311,48],"20989272","eternalny1",[313,48,48,245,308,48],"20989814",[315,48,49,316,304,48],"20992290","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fexecution",[318,48,48,265,319,48],"20992392","gitgud",[321,48,48,265,304,48],"20993380",[323,48,49,242,149,48],"20988345",[325,48,48,265,326,48],"20992854","pgt",[328,48,48,265,329,48],"20993469","bakuninsbart",[331,48,48,265,332,48],"20995112","in9",[123,49,49,242,124,48],[335,49,49,336,337,48],"20989092","maker\u002Fcritical\u002Fnone","quickthrower2",[339,49,49,340,341,48],"20989843","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fdesign","turtlebits",[343,49,49,242,344,48],"20994044","type0",[346,49,48,265,347,48],"21013300","erandros",[349,49,48,265,271,48],"21102388",[164,51,43,351,165,48],"project\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign",[229,51,48,353,11,49],"maker\u002Fpositive\u002Fdesign",[355,51,43,356,165,48],"20986452","maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign",[232,51,48,358,11,49],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[360,51,18,353,361,48],"20986479","tempodox",[363,51,49,340,364,48],"20987667","jaynetics",[366,51,48,265,367,48],"20992804","boomlinde",[369,51,18,370,311,48],"20987686","project\u002Fpositive\u002Fdesign",[372,51,48,265,373,48],"20993194","tluyben2",[375,51,43,351,376,48],"20993777","svrtknst",[378,51,48,379,380,48],"20990017","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign","dougdonohoe",[107,43,43,382,108,48],"project\u002Fmixed\u002Fdesign",[235,43,48,384,11,49],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fexecution",[386,43,18,370,387,48],"20988500","breck",[389,43,18,390,391,48],"20987141","project\u002Fpositive\u002Fexecution","chasefoto",[156,45,49,242,157,48],[394,45,18,307,395,48],"20988115","ithkuil",[397,45,49,242,157,48],"20988498",[399,45,43,400,395,48],"20989664","project\u002Fmixed\u002Fidea",[402,45,43,403,404,48],"21073771","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","iq22hi",[406,45,43,407,282,48],"20989325","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[409,45,48,245,410,48],"20990396","ilaksh",[412,45,48,413,11,49],"20988230","maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[415,45,48,245,157,48],"20988383",[417,45,18,307,308,48],"20988448",[205,45,48,245,11,49],[420,45,49,242,373,48],"20993219",[422,45,48,245,271,48],"21102421",[424,45,49,242,311,48],"20989316",[426,18,18,390,427,48],"20986346","bgnm2000",[429,18,18,307,387,48],"20989064",[431,42,49,242,432,48],"20989753","dkersten",[119,434,49,242,120,48],7,[436,434,48,245,11,49],"20986640",[438,434,49,336,439,48],"20988144","eropple",[441,434,49,242,442,48],"20988218","inimino",[444,434,49,242,445,48],"20988265","Etheryte",[447,46,43,400,448,48],"20986547","steve_adams_86",[450,46,49,242,311,48],"20987729",[452,46,43,400,448,48],"20987904",[454,455,49,316,456,48],"20988590",9,"taco_emoji",[458,455,48,245,459,48],"20988614","dopeboy",[461,455,43,462,456,48],"209952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