[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":569},["ShallowReactive",2],{"project-28968184":3},{"id":4,"name":5,"line":6,"line_source":7,"title":8,"url":9,"domain":5,"maker":10,"posted_at":11,"year":12,"points":13,"comments":14,"rank_in_year":15,"shown_in_year":16,"top":17,"tier":18,"category":19,"subcategory":20,"format":21,"keywords":22,"reception":27,"sentiment":28,"stance_mix":29,"scored_comments":34,"aspects":35,"strip":46,"post_text":47,"what":48,"said":106,"maker_in_thread":211,"shape":222,"grid":226,"attempts":529,"same_week":530,"maker_shows":40,"maker_hidden":561,"reader_version":562,"card":563},"28968184","sub.live","Low-latency jamming over the internet","title","Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet","https:\u002F\u002Fsub.live","weepy",1634995654,2021,236,119,173,2533,7,"notable","creative","music collaboration","desktop_app",[23,24,25,26],"low latency audio","online jamming","remote music collaboration","udp audio","mixed",-0.059,{"positive":30,"neutral":31,"mixed":32,"critical":33},6,15,2,10,33,{"performance":36,"idea":39,"design":42,"execution":44,"pricing":45},{"positive":37,"critical":38},3,5,{"positive":40,"critical":41},1,4,{"positive":32,"critical":43},0,{"positive":43,"critical":40},{"positive":43,"critical":43},[37,43,43,40,37,40,37,38,40,37,38,43,37,37,37,38,37,43,43,43,43,40,40,43,43,43,37,37,43,43,32,43,43,43,43,43,40,37,37,43],null,{"problem":49,"audience":60,"pricing":65,"motivation":76,"time_to_build":47,"stack":80,"openness":103,"stage":104,"team_size":105},{"value":50,"source":51,"evidence":52},"Musicians cannot play together in real time over the internet because of latency.","inferred",[53,56],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},"28968185","Heya - I recently made a desktop app that lets you jam live with your friends over the internet. You can read more about how it works here => https:\u002F\u002Fsub.live - but essentially…",{"id":57,"by":58,"text":59},"28968693","analog31","Thanks for making this. It looks worth giving a try. Some friends and I get together roughly weekly using Jamulus. We're playing mostly jazz standards. We have gotten latency…",{"value":61,"source":51,"evidence":62},"Musicians who want to jam live with remote friends.",[63,64],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},{"id":57,"by":58,"text":59},{"value":66,"source":67,"evidence":68},"Free for Windows and Mac; donationware via buy me a coffee; monetisation undecided.","maker",[69,70,73],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},{"id":71,"by":10,"text":72},"28973723","I would like to make some money with it to continue the support, but it's not clear yet the best way forward. Currently it's donationware, but other models could be a…",{"id":74,"by":10,"text":75},"28968975","There's a \"buy me a coffee\" on the page if you're feeling generous! It's true the cost is certainly the dev time not so much the servers. Though open sourcing doesn't protect…",{"value":77,"source":51,"evidence":78},"Maker wanted to jam live with friends over the internet at low latency.",[79],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},[81,85,89,93,97],{"value":82,"source":67,"evidence":83},"Electron",[84],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},{"value":86,"source":67,"evidence":87},"Svelte",[88],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},{"value":90,"source":67,"evidence":91},"Node.js websockets server",[92],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},{"value":94,"source":67,"evidence":95},"C++ UDP networking and audio subprocess",[96],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},{"value":98,"source":67,"evidence":99},"Opus audio codec",[100],{"id":101,"by":10,"text":102},"28968954","Yes Opus - the other benefit is that it can handle a degree of missing packets which is very handy.","free","launched","solo",{"praise":107,"objections":123,"requests":142,"questions":164,"alternatives":177},[108,115],{"value":109,"source":67,"evidence":110},"Latency is low enough to jam between UK and Denmark.",[111,112],{"id":54,"by":10,"text":55},{"id":113,"by":10,"text":114},"28969597","Actually I can jam with ease with my friends in London from Denmark. That's over 1000km. And if you don't believe me - check the testimonials on https:\u002F\u002Fsub.live ^_^ Also you…",{"value":116,"source":117,"evidence":118},"Clear product positioning and a useful idea.","commenter",[119],{"id":120,"by":121,"text":122},"28968707","koopuluri","Wow. I really like the positioning of your product: the audience and value proposition are crystal clear. I'm going to share this with my musician friends and see what they have…",[124,131],{"value":125,"source":117,"evidence":126},"WebRTC could achieve similar results; the claimed novelty is overstated.",[127],{"id":128,"by":129,"text":130},"28972770","audray","I may be missing something but this appears to me to be a WebRTC application. It is very easy to build something like this using any modern browser's WebRTC APIs, just disable…",{"value":132,"source":117,"evidence":133},"Latency over WiFi and long distances may be too high for many users.",[134,138],{"id":135,"by":136,"text":137},"28969427","tomxor","It's good that latency is considered to be so critical, but for the same reason I'm sceptical that this would work well for the majority beyond quite local ranges with very good…",{"id":139,"by":140,"text":141},"28968810","k__","I don't get these realtime collaborative streaming services. Streaming at home via wifi is already crappy, how should this ever work with more distance?",[143,150,157],{"value":144,"source":117,"evidence":145},"Release a Linux version.",[146],{"id":147,"by":148,"text":149},"28968788","capableweb","Would be amazing if this could be released as a Linux binary as well. Me and many of my friends are on a P2P mesh network, I'm sure we can push the latency down to below 20ms…",{"value":151,"source":117,"evidence":152},"Open source the project.",[153],{"id":154,"by":155,"text":156},"28972260","tytrdev","This is super cool. I’ve been formulating a similar idea for a while now. I’m building a desktop utility for guitarists using clojurescript and Tauri. I also wonder if this can…",{"value":158,"source":117,"evidence":159},"Add a VST plugin.",[160],{"id":161,"by":162,"text":163},"28968845","emerged","I had assumed this would be a VST plug-in so you could integrate everyone into (for example) an Ableton Live set with whatever other audio\u002Fmidi manipulation you want.",[165,169],{"value":166,"source":117,"evidence":167},"Is it open source?",[168],{"id":154,"by":155,"text":156},{"value":170,"source":117,"evidence":171},"How does it compare to JamKazam and Jamulus?",[172,176],{"id":173,"by":174,"text":175},"28969701","jp57","I'm very interested in this! Can you say how this compares to something like https:\u002F\u002Fjamkazam.com? One of my issues with JK is that it seems to require all participants to be…",{"id":57,"by":58,"text":59},[178,186,193,197,204],{"value":179,"source":117,"evidence":180},"Jamulus",[181,182],{"id":57,"by":58,"text":59},{"id":183,"by":184,"text":185},"28970417","rdtennent","My experience with Jamulus might be instructive. Members of our group live in the same city (Kingston, Ontario) but use two ISPs. Packets between users on the same ISP were fine…",{"value":187,"source":117,"evidence":188},"Sonobus",[189],{"id":190,"by":191,"text":192},"28969790","PaulDavisThe1st","I'm guessing that most people reading this are not familiar with some of the other options available for this kind of thing. In particular, they likely don't know about Sonobus:…",{"value":194,"source":117,"evidence":195},"JamKazam",[196],{"id":173,"by":174,"text":175},{"value":198,"source":117,"evidence":199},"Endlesss",[200],{"id":201,"by":202,"text":203},"28968870","deeblering4","I think https:\u002F\u002Fendlesss.fm got the approach to jamming over the internet right. Instead of trying to reduce latency (which you simply cannot do beyond speed of light) endlesss…",{"value":205,"source":117,"evidence":206},"JACK Trip",[207],{"id":208,"by":209,"text":210},"28970569","arctan5x","Checkout https:\u002F\u002Fjacktrip.org\u002Fstudio.html. We enable low latency audio connection through open source technology developed at Stanford. We can scale to hundreds of users signing…",{"comments":212,"answered":213,"key":214},31,8,[215,216,219],{"id":54,"text":55},{"id":217,"text":218},"28968959","If you are on Windows you need to use an ASIO soundcard ?",{"id":220,"text":221},"28968983","I did actually add a way to play a backing track for some drums or similar . 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