[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":1010},["ShallowReactive",2],{"project-39679378":3},{"id":4,"name":5,"line":6,"line_source":7,"title":8,"url":9,"domain":10,"maker":11,"posted_at":12,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rank_in_year":16,"shown_in_year":17,"top":18,"tier":19,"category":20,"subcategory":21,"format":22,"keywords":23,"reception":29,"sentiment":30,"stance_mix":31,"scored_comments":36,"aspects":37,"strip":51,"post_text":53,"what":54,"said":78,"maker_in_thread":216,"shape":226,"grid":230,"attempts":972,"same_week":973,"maker_shows":784,"maker_hidden":1002,"reader_version":1003,"card":1004},"39679378","csv-to-usv","Comma Separated Values (CSV) to Unicode Separated Values (USV)","title","Show HN: Comma Separated Values (CSV) to Unicode Separated Values (USV)","https:\u002F\u002Fcrates.io\u002Fcrates\u002Fcsv-to-usv","crates.io","jph",1710250988,2024,208,287,377,3515,11,"notable","languages","data format library","library",[24,25,26,27,28],"csv","usv","unicode separated values","rust crate","data format","roasted",-0.424,{"positive":32,"neutral":33,"mixed":34,"critical":35},16,49,4,84,153,{"execution":38,"idea":41,"design":44,"docs":47,"privacy":50},{"positive":39,"critical":40},5,8,{"positive":42,"critical":43},10,35,{"positive":45,"critical":46},1,36,{"positive":48,"critical":49},0,2,{"positive":48,"critical":49},[49,39,49,45,45,52,52,34,45,34,45,49,45,45,49,45,45,52,48,45,49,45,45,45,34,45,45,45,34,45,52,45,52,45,52,49,45,45,45,45],3,null,{"problem":55,"audience":53,"pricing":53,"motivation":53,"time_to_build":53,"stack":67,"openness":75,"stage":76,"team_size":77},{"value":56,"source":57,"evidence":58},"CSV has escaping and delimiter problems; USV uses Unicode separator symbols instead","commenter",[59,63],{"id":60,"by":61,"text":62},"39679569","jiehong","For those wondering what USV is, like myself: > Unicode separated values (USV) is a data format that uses Unicode symbol characters between data parts. USV competes with comma…",{"id":64,"by":65,"text":66},"39680047","ahofmann","I'm fascinated that a lot of posters in this thread are not understanding the ideas and experiences, that the inventors of this file format had or made. They invented this format…",[68],{"value":69,"source":70,"evidence":71},"Rust","maker",[72],{"id":73,"by":11,"text":74},"39698760","USV defaults to UTF-8, which prevents the issue of Unicode buffer overflow-- presuming you mean the typical kind where Unicode flows into ASCII. The primary USV library…","open_source","launched","solo",{"praise":79,"objections":95,"requests":152,"questions":173,"alternatives":189},[80],{"value":81,"source":57,"evidence":82},"Clever use of Unicode symbols makes separators visible and editable",[83,87,91],{"id":84,"by":85,"text":86},"39679926","jonathaneunice","Fascinated this uses the Unicode glyphs \u002F symbols for unit and record separator rather than the unit and record separators themselves (ASCII US and RS). Perfect deployment of…",{"id":88,"by":89,"text":90},"39680327","crq-yml","It's sensible in principle: * Editors will play nicely with the graphical representation. If you need better graphics, it's done with font customization, which everyone already…",{"id":92,"by":93,"text":94},"39689724","jbaber","I've been using an emoji separated values format for a personal project where fields contain lots of special characters including whitespace. I'd previously given up using ASV…",[96,110,125,140],{"value":97,"source":57,"evidence":98},"Hard to type and read the separator glyphs in ordinary editors",[99,103,107],{"id":100,"by":101,"text":102},"39679854","bryanlarsen","According to their GitHub README: ```USV works with many kinds of editors. Any editor that can render the USV characters will work. We use vi, emacs, Coda, Notepad++, TextMate,…",{"id":104,"by":105,"text":106},"39680085","vidarh","Their examples if anything convinced me not to use this for a long time. I need to zoom to be able to tell these apart, so I'll need editor support for it to be convenient to…",{"id":108,"by":105,"text":109},"39680359","We might be able to see them, but for me they're just a blur unless I zoom in significantly, so I'll need editor accommodations just as much for these characters as if they used…",{"value":111,"source":57,"evidence":112},"No Excel or wide library support",[113,117,121],{"id":114,"by":115,"text":116},"39679863","code-faster","CSV is great because excel can import it, but it can't import USV, so at that point, why use USV when you can use JSON? https:\u002F\u002Fgithub.com\u002Ftyleradams\u002Fjson-toolkit\u002F",{"id":118,"by":119,"text":120},"39679571","evrimoztamur","First time hearing about USV, nifty! However, I think the adoptability challenge remains here to be Excel support (very tough).",{"id":122,"by":123,"text":124},"39679791","theamk","All downsides, no upsides. You cannot edit it in regular editor, like csv\u002Ftsv\u002Fjsonlines. There is no schema or efficient storage, like binary formats. There is no wide library…",{"value":126,"source":57,"evidence":127},"Adds yet another standard without real backing",[128,132,136],{"id":129,"by":130,"text":131},"39680034","pquki4","The usv github repository says it is \"the standard for data markup of ...\", has 66 stars, and is currently applying for \"text\u002Fusv\" MIME type. That's all about it. Maybe I'll…",{"id":133,"by":134,"text":135},"39679753","teddyh","This is needlessly adding yet another standard¹ to the mix. If you are in a position to choose what standard you use, just use: • Whatever is best for the data model and\u002For…",{"id":137,"by":138,"text":139},"39680462","pimlottc","> Is USV aiming to become a standard? > > Yes and we've submitted the first draft of the USV standard to the IETF: link. This is a nice idea, and all, but seems unlikely to…",{"value":141,"source":57,"evidence":142},"Documentation and spec issues such as SYN and escaping",[143,147,151],{"id":144,"by":145,"text":146},"39684493","philsnow","> The Synchronous Idle (SYN) symbol is a heartbeat, and is especially useful for streaming data, such as to keep a connection alive. > > SYN tells the data reader that data…",{"id":148,"by":149,"text":150},"39679944","otabdeveloper4","Absolutely terrible documentation. The RFC doesn't even explain the purpose of the \"End of Transmission Block\" token.",{"id":108,"by":105,"text":109},[153,160,166],{"value":154,"source":57,"evidence":155},"Support custom delimiters such as semicolon",[156],{"id":157,"by":158,"text":159},"39679770","ochrist","If you live in a place where comma is the decimal separator, your CSV files will often use semicolon as the separator instead of comma. Will this tool cater for that?",{"value":161,"source":70,"evidence":162},"Add automatic record separator newlines",[163],{"id":164,"by":11,"text":165},"39691960","Good point. I'm adding automatic record separator newlines to the crate now.",{"value":167,"source":57,"evidence":168},"Python library",[169],{"id":170,"by":171,"text":172},"39698817","two_handfuls","Nice! Is there a Python library?",[174],{"value":175,"source":57,"evidence":176},"Why not use ASCII separators or existing formats like RSV or Parquet",[177,181,185],{"id":178,"by":179,"text":180},"39679662","tambourine_man","ASCII has a field delimiter character. The fact that we chose comma and tabs because a field delimiter character is hard to type or see is one of those things that saddens me in…",{"id":182,"by":183,"text":184},"39684049","Fileformat","A similar concept that is (IMHO) much nicer: RSV It doesn't need any escaping or quoting: a field just has to be valid UTF-8. The trick is that the delimiters are bytes that are…",{"id":186,"by":187,"text":188},"39679737","remram","Why not use parquet at this point? (or a row-oriented equivalent like Avro or SQLite) If you don't have a human-readable file, might as well be compressible, queriable, and…",[190,197,201,209],{"value":191,"source":57,"evidence":192},"ASCII Separated Values (ASV)",[193],{"id":194,"by":195,"text":196},"39679629","eli","Not sure I understand the advantage over ASCII Separated Values (ASV) which use ASCII control characters 0x1E and 0x1F",{"value":198,"source":57,"evidence":199},"RSV",[200],{"id":182,"by":183,"text":184},{"value":202,"source":57,"evidence":203},"TSV and RFC 4180 CSV",[204,208],{"id":205,"by":206,"text":207},"39683400","nayuki","Nope, this isn't a good approach. I prefer tab-separated values (TSV) and use it as much as possible.",{"id":133,"by":134,"text":135},{"value":210,"source":57,"evidence":211},"JSON and JSON Lines",[212,213],{"id":114,"by":115,"text":116},{"id":214,"by":123,"text":215},"39681721","We don't need a new format which works for machines as well as for humans, because there are are tons of existing ones. You have CSV or TSV for wide support; JSONlines if you…",{"comments":217,"answered":39,"key":218},15,[219,220,223],{"id":164,"text":165},{"id":221,"text":222},"39691933","Yes you're right. That's a long term goal.",{"id":224,"text":225},"39693245","Good catch! I just fixed csv-to-usv so it prints newlines now. You're right, Parquet and Avro are both great, for use with schemas.",{"commenters":227,"max_depth":40,"maker_replies":217,"first_comment_mins":228,"lifespan_hours":229},161,14,337,[231,233,237,240,243,246,249,252,255,257,261,265,268,272,276,279,282,285,289,293,296,298,301,304,307,310,313,315,318,321,324,325,328,330,332,335,337,340,343,347,350,353,355,358,361,363,366,368,370,374,376,378,381,383,386,388,391,394,397,400,403,406,409,412,415,418,421,424,427,429,432,434,436,439,441,443,446,448,451,453,456,458,462,464,467,469,471,473,475,477,480,482,485,486,489,491,493,496,499,502,504,507,508,511,514,517,518,521,522,525,526,529,530,531,534,536,538,540,543,545,547,550,553,556,558,561,563,565,568,570,573,576,580,583,585,588,591,594,596,598,600,602,604,606,608,610,612,615,618,621,623,625,627,629,632,634,636,639,641,643,646,649,651,654,656,659,661,665,668,670,672,673,677,680,683,686,688,690,691,694,697,699,701,704,706,708,710,712,716,718,721,723,726,729,731,734,736,738,740,744,747,751,754,756,759,760,763,766,769,772,775,778,781,783,785,788,790,792,795,798,802,804,806,809,811,813,815,817,820,821,823,824,826,830,832,834,837,839,841,843,847,850,852,855,858,860,862,865,867,869,872,874,877,879,881,884,886,888,890,892,896,898,901,903,907,911,912,916,918,921,925,927,929,931,935,939,942,944,947,949,951,954,958,960,962,964,968],[84,48,48,232,85,48],"commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign",[234,48,52,235,236,48],"39680120","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fexecution","ale42",[238,48,52,235,239,48],"39680147","BugsJustFindMe",[241,48,45,242,123,48],"39681524","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fidea",[244,48,52,245,239,48],"39681708","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[247,48,45,248,123,48],"39681826","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fdesign",[250,48,52,251,239,48],"39682396","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign",[253,48,48,232,254,48],"39682794","couchand",[164,48,48,256,11,45],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fexecution",[258,48,39,259,260,48],"39739035","project\u002Fpositive\u002Fidea","sumergomonstro",[262,48,48,263,264,48],"39682122","other\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","6510",[266,48,52,235,267,48],"39680504","red_admiral",[269,48,48,270,271,48],"39682190","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fexecution","eadmund",[273,48,48,274,275,48],"39682921","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","cxr",[277,48,48,270,278,48],"39683679","qzzi",[280,48,48,270,281,48],"39683722","fiddlerwoaroof",[283,48,45,242,284,48],"39680884","ajdude",[286,48,52,287,288,48],"39680916","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fdocs","default-kramer",[290,48,52,291,292,48],"39685050","project\u002Fmixed\u002Fdesign","divbzero",[294,48,48,274,295,48],"39688159","throwanem",[221,48,48,297,11,45],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[299,48,45,248,300,48],"39685551","marwis",[302,48,45,248,303,48],"39686421","Renaud",[305,48,48,274,306,48],"39683658","HL33tibCe7",[308,48,48,274,309,48],"39683791","ok_dad",[311,48,48,274,312,48],"39684132","groby_b",[314,48,45,248,309,48],"39684211",[316,48,48,263,317,48],"39685187","1vuio0pswjnm7",[319,48,48,274,320,48],"39685358","Tijdreiziger",[322,48,48,263,323,48],"39828082","pmarreck",[178,45,45,242,179,48],[326,45,48,274,327,48],"39679883","g4zj",[329,45,45,242,179,48],"39680403",[331,45,52,245,327,48],"39680463",[333,45,45,248,334,48],"39680628","hermitcrab",[336,45,45,248,179,48],"39680643",[338,45,48,274,339,48],"39684222","t-3",[341,45,52,251,342,48],"39685516","andyferris",[344,45,39,345,346,48],"39681184","project\u002Fpositive\u002Fexecution","EvanAnderson",[348,45,48,263,349,48],"39686182","dheera",[351,45,48,263,352,48],"39686600","_kst_",[354,45,48,263,349,48],"39687180",[356,45,48,263,357,48],"39688041","jll29",[359,45,48,263,360,48],"39688135","nyokodo",[362,45,48,263,349,48],"39688475",[364,45,48,263,365,48],"39687809","thayne",[367,45,39,259,327,48],"39690518",[369,45,52,251,260,48],"39739896",[371,45,45,372,373,48],"39680536","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fexecution","eirikbakke",[375,45,52,235,334,48],"39680619",[377,45,48,274,327,48],"39682661",[379,45,48,270,380,48],"39682860","rhelz",[382,45,45,372,334,48],"39686075",[384,45,48,274,385,48],"39686954","runlaszlorun",[387,45,52,245,179,48],"39680626",[389,45,39,259,390,48],"39680797","AdamH12113",[392,45,39,259,393,48],"39681198","mechanicalpulse",[395,45,48,270,396,48],"39684379","layer8",[398,45,45,248,399,48],"39683741","TheRealPomax",[401,45,48,263,402,48],"39685959","gardenhedge",[404,45,48,263,405,48],"39679904","atrus",[407,45,48,263,408,48],"39679961","benjijay",[410,45,48,263,411,48],"39690960","BlueTemplar",[413,45,48,263,414,48],"39691898","dreadlordbone",[416,45,48,263,417,48],"39690933","Bjartr",[419,45,39,259,420,48],"39680092","NelsonMinar",[422,45,39,345,423,48],"39681173","adammarples",[425,45,45,242,426,48],"39680432","littlestymaar",[428,45,48,274,179,48],"39680750",[430,45,48,274,431,48],"39681276","MaBu",[433,45,48,274,179,48],"39681868",[435,45,48,274,254,48],"39682954",[437,45,48,274,438,48],"39683068","shawnz",[440,45,48,274,254,48],"39683233",[442,45,45,248,426,48],"39684934",[444,45,48,274,445,48],"39688709","usr1106",[447,45,48,263,426,48],"39683389",[449,45,48,263,450,48],"39684863","wiml",[452,45,48,263,342,48],"39685595",[454,45,48,263,455,48],"39685617","mongol",[457,45,48,263,411,48],"39691006",[459,45,52,460,461,48],"39684188","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","zzo38computer",[463,45,52,235,390,48],"39687160",[465,45,45,372,466,48],"39688951","serial_dev",[468,45,48,274,390,48],"39693546",[470,45,52,251,260,48],"39738948",[472,45,45,242,373,48],"39680489",[474,45,48,274,179,48],"39680568",[476,45,48,274,349,48],"39686171",[478,45,48,274,479,48],"39690897","demondemidi",[481,45,48,274,365,48],"39687786",[483,45,45,242,484,48],"39686356","indymike",[104,49,45,248,105,48],[487,49,45,242,488,48],"39680249","strunz",[490,49,52,291,105,48],"39680745",[492,49,48,274,488,48],"39682621",[494,49,48,274,495,48],"39684984","bdzr",[497,49,48,263,498,48],"39687150","shawn_w",[500,49,48,274,501,48],"39680581","pie_flavor",[503,49,45,248,105,48],"39680818",[505,49,45,248,506,48],"39684832","derbOac",[60,52,52,460,61,48],[509,52,52,245,510,48],"39679654","calvinmorrison",[512,52,45,248,513,48],"39679724","curtisblaine",[515,52,52,251,516,48],"39679792","timmg",[100,52,39,345,101,48],[519,52,48,263,520,48],"39679881","Solvency",[64,52,39,259,65,48],[523,52,45,242,524,48],"39680324","wtetzner",[108,52,45,248,105,48],[527,52,45,242,528,48],"39680468","dahart",[214,52,45,242,123,48],[122,52,45,242,123,48],[532,52,52,245,533,48],"39680247","mavhc",[535,52,45,242,275,48],"39680512",[537,52,48,274,533,48],"39690338",[539,52,48,274,275,48],"39705686",[541,52,45,242,542,48],"39680469","ixwt",[544,52,45,372,123,48],"39681494",[224,52,48,546,11,45],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[548,52,45,242,549,48],"39686432","LegionMammal978",[551,52,52,245,552,48],"39679820","edent",[554,52,48,263,555,48],"39679931","michaelt",[557,52,48,263,334,48],"39680717",[559,52,48,263,560,48],"39681691","mst",[562,52,48,263,320,48],"39685471",[564,52,48,274,320,48],"39708224",[566,52,48,263,567,48],"39685330","dimask",[569,52,48,274,320,48],"39685458",[571,52,48,263,572,48],"39680060","chasil",[574,52,48,263,575,48],"39687811","quesera",[577,52,48,578,579,48],"39680312","other\u002Fpositive\u002Fidea","pavon",[581,52,48,274,582,48],"39684227","gkbrk",[584,52,48,274,579,48],"39685881",[586,52,48,263,587,48],"39828682","lsaferite",[589,52,48,263,590,48],"39687588","paulddraper",[592,52,48,263,593,48],"39680405","queuebert",[595,52,48,263,334,48],"39680765",[597,52,48,274,593,48],"39681613",[599,52,48,274,334,48],"39681864",[601,52,45,248,134,48],"39679828",[603,52,52,251,396,48],"39684445",[605,52,45,248,134,48],"39696614",[607,52,48,232,587,48],"39828649",[609,52,45,248,271,48],"39679875",[611,52,52,287,65,48],"39679903",[613,52,45,248,614,48],"39682228","philipwhiuk",[616,52,39,617,101,48],"39679906","project\u002Fpositive\u002Fdesign",[619,52,45,248,620,48],"39679966","tgv",[622,52,52,287,101,48],"39680077",[624,52,45,248,105,48],"39680274",[626,52,52,287,438,48],"39683139",[628,52,45,248,105,48],"39683339",[630,52,45,631,123,48],"39681580","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fdocs",[633,52,52,287,101,48],"39683246",[635,52,45,372,123,48],"39684647",[637,52,45,248,638,48],"39680534","NoMoreNicksLeft",[640,52,45,248,567,48],"39685273",[642,52,45,248,271,48],"39682244",[644,52,52,287,645,48],"39679924","SigmundurM",[647,52,45,242,648,48],"39680053","nostrademons",[650,52,48,274,501,48],"39680605",[652,52,52,287,653,48],"39684464","ascorbic",[655,52,45,248,105,48],"39680134",[657,52,52,235,658,48],"39680289","ape4",[660,52,45,242,334,48],"39680525",[662,52,52,663,664,48],"39684101","maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fdocs","skirmish",[666,52,45,248,667,48],"39686440","dr_kiszonka",[669,52,48,617,11,45],"39693178",[671,52,45,248,667,48],"39698966",[129,34,45,242,130,48],[674,34,45,675,676,48],"39680715","maker\u002Fcritical\u002Fnone","netsharc",[678,34,48,263,679,48],"39683041","renewiltord",[681,34,39,259,682,48],"39695777","twosdai",[684,34,48,274,685,48],"39683079","FrustratedMonky",[687,34,48,263,590,48],"39685766",[689,34,48,546,11,45],"39691427",[194,39,52,245,195,48],[692,39,52,287,693,48],"39679693","p_l",[695,39,52,287,696,48],"39679702","jdeisenberg",[698,39,45,248,390,48],"39679902",[700,39,52,251,195,48],"39680098",[702,39,52,245,703,48],"39680284","a-priori",[705,39,45,248,396,48],"39684504",[144,707,45,248,145,48],6,[709,707,45,242,590,48],"39685803",[711,707,48,546,11,45],"39691386",[713,714,45,242,715,48],"39680188",7,"SuperHeavy256",[717,714,48,232,334,48],"39680822",[719,714,48,232,720,48],"39681472","lelanthran",[722,714,52,251,614,48],"39682309",[724,714,52,251,725,48],"39683070","euroderf",[727,714,45,248,728,48],"39683425","estebank",[730,714,52,251,725,48],"39683772",[732,714,45,248,733,48],"39684278","greenshackle2",[735,714,48,274,725,48],"39684869",[737,714,48,232,733,48],"39685020",[739,714,48,263,725,48],"39688629",[741,714,52,742,743,48],"39684147","project\u002Fmixed\u002Fidea","blackbeans",[745,40,45,242,746,48],"39679892","forgetfulness",[748,749,52,245,750,48],"39680028",9,"bombledmonk",[752,749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