[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":191},["ShallowReactive",2],{"project-40975049":3},{"id":4,"name":5,"line":6,"line_source":7,"title":8,"url":9,"domain":10,"maker":11,"posted_at":12,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rank_in_year":16,"shown_in_year":17,"top":18,"tier":19,"category":20,"subcategory":21,"format":22,"keywords":23,"reception":28,"sentiment":29,"stance_mix":30,"scored_comments":32,"aspects":33,"strip":35,"post_text":37,"what":38,"said":51,"maker_in_thread":105,"shape":118,"grid":121,"attempts":154,"same_week":155,"maker_shows":151,"maker_hidden":184,"reader_version":185,"card":186},"40975049","Ar","You can program without loop and recursion and×÷- is all you need","title","Show HN: You can program without loop and recursion and×÷- is all you need","https:\u002F\u002Fgithub.com\u002Fraoofha\u002FAr","github.com","raoof",1721124478,2024,9,17,2855,3515,82,"shown","languages","programming language","library",[21,24,25,26,27],"turing complete","fractran","arithmetic","loop free programming","roasted",-0.5,{"positive":31,"neutral":31,"mixed":31,"critical":32},0,7,{"idea":34},{"positive":31,"critical":32},[31,31,36,31,36,31,36,31,36,31,36,31,36,31,36,31,31],1,null,{"problem":39,"audience":37,"pricing":37,"motivation":37,"time_to_build":37,"stack":48,"openness":49,"stage":50,"team_size":49},{"value":40,"source":41,"evidence":42},"Programming without loops or recursion, using only arithmetic operations.","maker",[43,45],{"id":44},"post",{"id":46,"by":11,"text":47},"40978239","in my model it's the platform job to handle the user input and your program output you just write your function and the platform calls your program for example…",[],"unknown","prototype",{"praise":52,"objections":53,"requests":86,"questions":87,"alternatives":97},[],[54,66,75],{"value":55,"source":56,"evidence":57},"Claimed Turing completeness is doubtful because the language has no runtime input and programs are static.","commenter",[58,62],{"id":59,"by":60,"text":61},"40977985","upon_drumhead","I think the issue here is that the language doesn't have any form of user input, so all possible programs are fully static and thus can be represented without any loops or…",{"id":63,"by":64,"text":65},"40975380","voidUpdate","I must just be missing something then. How would you write a program that prints out the numbers from 1 to n, for reasonable n? (representable by a computer)",{"value":67,"source":56,"evidence":68},"Unclear how to iterate or handle arbitrary inputs such as primality tests without loops.",[69,72],{"id":70,"by":64,"text":71},"40975116","How do you go back to an earlier point in the program if you can't loop? For example, how would you do a primality test for an arbitrary input?",{"id":73,"by":64,"text":74},"40975312","That's why I said an arbitrary number, you can't just precompute the primality of every single number... And I'm afraid I don't really understand your proof of being able to do…",{"value":76,"source":56,"evidence":77},"Precomputing outputs is impractical for large input spaces.",[78,82],{"id":79,"by":80,"text":81},"40986991","out_of_protocol","Don't need a language then, just compile down to \"return 4\". No instructions needed. Without user input it's not really useful. How about returning maximum value of user-privided…",{"id":83,"by":84,"text":85},"40977870","stoltzmann","The question isn't as to how it will be represented, that's the boring part. When given a number n, and you want to display them, how will you actually compute the numbers from 1…",[],[88,93],{"value":89,"source":56,"evidence":90},"How would the program print numbers from 1 to n without loops?",[91,92],{"id":63,"by":64,"text":65},{"id":83,"by":84,"text":85},{"value":94,"source":56,"evidence":95},"How would a primality test work for an arbitrary input?",[96],{"id":70,"by":64,"text":71},[98],{"value":99,"source":56,"evidence":100},"FRACTRAN, a Turing complete language based only on multiplication.",[101],{"id":102,"by":103,"text":104},"41032926","rstuart4133","Why over complicate it? FRACTRAN is a Turning complete language based on only one operation: multiplication. It's Wikipedia entry gives a short FRACTRAN program that finds all…",{"comments":106,"answered":107,"key":108},8,5,[109,112,115],{"id":110,"text":111},"41035928","FRACTRAN has a goto instruction so it is not a total model of computation but my claim is that Ar is a total model of computation. maybe unrolled FRACTRAN is a total model of…",{"id":113,"text":114},"40975181","if you don't want to melt your brain :D you just precompute the value of any functions f(x) for x\u003Cn otherwise you need to be very clever I explained my idea in the link",{"id":116,"text":117},"40975341","the language is obviously (at least to me) turing-complete in the limit of the program length. even if you don't buy my argument that it is also turing-complete without the limit…",{"commenters":106,"max_depth":106,"maker_replies":106,"first_comment_mins":119,"lifespan_hours":120},12,150,[122,124,126,128,130,131,132,133,135,136,139,140,141,144,146,147,149],[102,31,31,123,103,31],"other\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[110,31,31,125,11,36],"commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[70,36,36,127,64,31],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fidea",[113,36,31,129,11,36],"project\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[73,36,36,127,64,31],[116,36,31,129,11,36],[63,36,36,127,64,31],[134,36,31,129,11,36],"40975598",[83,36,36,127,84,31],[137,36,31,138,11,36],"40978106","maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[59,36,36,127,60,31],[46,36,31,129,11,36],[142,36,36,127,143,31],"40978337","rented_mule",[145,36,31,129,11,36],"40975472",[79,36,36,127,80,31],[148,36,31,138,11,36],"40989230",[150,151,31,152,153,31],"40987659",2,"other\u002Fcritical\u002Fnone","brudgers",[],[156,161,166,171,176,180],{"id":157,"name":158,"points":159,"category":160},"40956087","Resurrecting a dead Dune RTS game",485,"games",{"id":162,"name":163,"points":164,"category":165},"40972122","Horizon",361,"web_saas",{"id":167,"name":168,"points":169,"category":170},"40960508","Buzzinga",284,"consumer_social",{"id":172,"name":173,"points":174,"category":175},"40952509","CSS grid generator",262,"dev_tools",{"id":177,"name":178,"points":179,"category":175},"40961101","Kaskade",164,{"id":181,"name":182,"points":183,"category":175},"40980715","Magic-cli",158,false,"v2",{"id":187,"name":5,"line":6,"ai":184,"cat":20,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rec":28,"s":29,"top":18,"kw":188,"maker":11,"domain":10,"tier":19,"attempts":31,"strip":189,"url":9,"mix":190,"praise":-1,"objection":55,"sub":21},40975049,[21,24,25,26,27],"00101010101010100",[31,31,31,32],1793991095963]