[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":356},["ShallowReactive",2],{"project-7461343":3},{"id":4,"name":5,"line":6,"line_source":7,"title":8,"url":9,"domain":10,"maker":11,"posted_at":12,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rank_in_year":16,"shown_in_year":17,"top":18,"tier":19,"category":20,"subcategory":21,"format":22,"keywords":23,"reception":28,"sentiment":29,"stance_mix":30,"scored_comments":34,"aspects":35,"strip":44,"post_text":46,"what":47,"said":51,"maker_in_thread":171,"shape":182,"grid":186,"attempts":316,"same_week":317,"maker_shows":31,"maker_hidden":348,"reader_version":349,"card":350},"7461343","Bitcoin derivatives","call and put options","title","Show HN: Bitcoin derivatives – call and put options","https:\u002F\u002Fderivabit.com","derivabit.com","ciscoriordan",1395694090,2014,95,55,287,2272,13,"notable","finance_crypto","bitcoin options exchange","web_app",[24,25,26,27],"bitcoin options","bitcoin derivatives","put options","call options","roasted",-0.537,{"positive":31,"neutral":32,"mixed":31,"critical":33},1,8,20,30,{"design":36,"idea":37,"pricing":40,"privacy":41,"docs":43},{"positive":31,"critical":32},{"positive":38,"critical":39},0,7,{"positive":38,"critical":31},{"positive":38,"critical":42},2,{"positive":38,"critical":31},[31,38,38,38,31,31,38,38,38,38,45,31,31,31,45,31,31,31,31,31,45,45,45,31,38,31,31,38,31,31,45,31,38,31,45,38,45,45,31,45],3,null,{"problem":46,"audience":46,"pricing":46,"motivation":46,"time_to_build":46,"stack":48,"openness":49,"stage":50,"team_size":49},[],"unknown","launched",{"praise":52,"objections":53,"requests":104,"questions":123,"alternatives":147},[],[54,66,81,89,96],{"value":55,"source":56,"evidence":57},"Put options are effectively capped at margin, so they do not hedge tail risk","commenter",[58,62],{"id":59,"by":60,"text":61},"7461936","bjterry","I would be very careful with using this for risk management. It has very different characteristics from exchange-traded options contracts that you may be familiar with in the US.…",{"id":63,"by":64,"text":65},"7462008","simon_","I was going to write a response disagreeing based on the assumption that, like any normal exchange, Derivabit would fully intermediate the trade. But after reading the guide, I…",{"value":67,"source":56,"evidence":68},"Counterparty risk with no clearing or guarantee of trades",[69,73,77],{"id":70,"by":71,"text":72},"7461604","Tycho","So... counterparty risk?",{"id":74,"by":75,"text":76},"7461704","noname123","Why 20% for puts? Although loss for puts is capped at 100% of margin value, BTC is as much liable to go up 20% or 20% in a short period of time. How often is margin calculation…",{"id":78,"by":79,"text":80},"7462148","JumpCrisscross","Former volatility market maker here. Interesting concept, one I have considered playing with myself. Issues I see so far: (1) Not compliant. No SIPC coverage for customer funds…",{"value":82,"source":56,"evidence":83},"Likely not regulatory compliant in the US; no SEC registration or SIPC coverage",[84,85],{"id":78,"by":79,"text":80},{"id":86,"by":87,"text":88},"7462787","jackgavigan","(1) As Bitcoin has yet to be recognised\u002Fclassified as a currency or security, one could argue that derivatives based on the price of a Bitcoin are more akin to bets than…",{"value":90,"source":56,"evidence":91},"Lack of order book and rates or collateral markets hampers price discovery",[92,95],{"id":93,"by":60,"text":94},"7462046","I just noticed that they don't actually provide an order book or any sort of bid-ask spread information. That makes price discovery extremely challenging, and makes this even…",{"id":78,"by":79,"text":80},{"value":97,"source":56,"evidence":98},"Withdrawals require photo ID, not clearly disclosed",[99,100],{"id":59,"by":60,"text":61},{"id":101,"by":102,"text":103},"7461935","topynate","It's not obvious that you need to verify your identity to withdraw. It would be very easy for someone to see a deposit address and assume withdrawals would be just as…",[105,113],{"value":106,"source":56,"evidence":107},"Clarify the guide and make it more visible",[108,112],{"id":109,"by":110,"text":111},"7461589","mrmch","Looks cool (like the Authy integration), but you might want to make the Guide a little more visible (https:\u002F\u002Fderivabit.com\u002Fguide). That was the first thing I was looking for.",{"id":101,"by":102,"text":103},{"value":114,"source":56,"evidence":115},"Provide an API",[116,120],{"id":117,"by":118,"text":119},"7462499","michaelgrosner2","Is there any API to speak of?",{"id":121,"by":11,"text":122},"7462772","Not yet, it's on the roadmap. Contact info in my profile.",[124,130,140],{"value":125,"source":56,"evidence":126},"What underlying price is used for settlement",[127,128,129],{"id":78,"by":79,"text":80},{"id":86,"by":87,"text":88},{"id":59,"by":60,"text":61},{"value":131,"source":56,"evidence":132},"What legal jurisdiction and licensing applies",[133,137],{"id":134,"by":135,"text":136},"7462005","jboggan","What's the legality of this operation in terms of your base of operation and location of customers you are serving? Did you guys have to get a MSB license or similar oversight?…",{"id":138,"by":11,"text":139},"7462133","We only support Bitcoin derivative instruments, which we believe to be under the CFTC's jurisdiction (http:\u002F\u002Fwww.law.cornell.edu\u002Fuscode\u002Ftext\u002F7\u002F2).",{"value":141,"source":56,"evidence":142},"How margin and collateral are handled if a counterparty cannot pay",[143,144],{"id":74,"by":75,"text":76},{"id":145,"by":11,"text":146},"7461867","The margin is a percentage of the underlying Bitcoin. So no margin calls. If your counterparty can't pay, then you get the full value of their margin account for that trade (plus…",[148,158,165],{"value":149,"source":56,"evidence":150},"Intrade and Nadex binary options markets",[151,155],{"id":152,"by":153,"text":154},"7463767","runeks","> (1) As Bitcoin has yet to be recognised\u002Fclassified as a currency or security, one could argue that derivatives based on the price of a Bitcoin are more akin to bets than…",{"id":156,"by":87,"text":157},"7465001","I seem to recall that the CFTC were primarily concerned with the fact that Intrade offered options based on the price of currencies and gold. Nadex were also smacked down when…",{"value":159,"source":56,"evidence":160},"Counterparty and Mastercoin decentralized exchange protocols",[161],{"id":162,"by":163,"text":164},"7461694","mlubin","A couple of projects have looked at solving the trust issue by implementing a distributed exchange without counterparty risk on top of the bitcoin blockchain:…",{"value":166,"source":56,"evidence":167},"Bitfinex liquidity swap market",[168],{"id":169,"by":153,"text":170},"7463782","So is Bitfinex' \"liquidity swap market\" [1][2] a rates market? It's basically just people with either USD, BTC or LTC deposited with the exchange, offering to lend it out at a…",{"comments":172,"answered":173,"key":174},9,6,[175,178,181],{"id":176,"text":177},"7462058","The order book is at https:\u002F\u002Fderivabit.com\u002Forder_book. You can drill down into specific contracts for more details. There is also a summarized version built into the trade form.",{"id":179,"text":180},"7462092","Thanks for the suggestions, the guide has been updated. Regarding your other concerns, we'll address those with more complicated margin requirements for new contracts and…",{"id":138,"text":139},{"commenters":183,"max_depth":173,"maker_replies":172,"first_comment_mins":184,"lifespan_hours":185},29,32,14,[187,189,193,197,199,201,203,205,207,210,213,215,217,218,221,225,226,227,228,230,233,237,238,241,245,248,251,253,256,258,260,262,264,267,269,271,274,275,277,278,279,281,284,287,290,292,295,298,301,303,306,308,309,312,315],[78,38,31,188,79,38],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fdesign",[190,38,38,191,192,38],"7462263","commenter\u002Fpositive\u002Fnone","sillysaurus3",[194,38,38,195,196,38],"7462267","commenter\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone","csense",[198,38,38,195,79,38],"7462429",[169,38,38,200,153,38],"other\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[202,38,31,188,75,38],"7462428",[204,38,38,195,79,38],"7462486",[86,38,31,206,87,38],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fidea",[208,38,38,195,209,38],"7463321","bayesianhorse",[211,38,38,195,212,38],"7463580","bunderbunder",[214,38,38,195,87,38],"7465009",[152,38,38,216,153,38],"other\u002Fneutral\u002Fidea",[156,38,38,195,87,38],[219,38,31,206,220,38],"7463704","exelius",[222,38,223,224,153,38],"7463754",5,"project\u002Fpositive\u002Fdesign",[59,31,31,188,60,38],[63,31,31,188,64,38],[93,31,31,188,60,38],[176,31,38,229,11,31],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign",[231,31,45,232,60,38],"7462124","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fdesign",[234,31,31,235,236,38],"7462072","maker\u002Fcritical\u002Fnone","greenyoda",[179,31,38,229,11,31],[239,31,31,240,60,38],"7462192","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fpricing",[242,42,31,243,244,38],"7462053","project\u002Fcritical\u002Fprivacy","dia80",[246,42,31,243,247,38],"7462571","panarky",[249,42,38,200,250,38],"7464714","kartman",[252,45,31,206,64,38],"7461905",[134,254,45,255,135,38],4,"project\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[138,254,38,257,11,31],"maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fnone",[259,254,45,257,135,38],"7462248",[109,223,45,261,110,38],"project\u002Fmixed\u002Fdocs",[263,173,31,206,209,38],"7463189",[265,39,38,200,266,38],"7462574","oscilloscope",[268,39,38,257,11,31],"7462691",[101,32,31,270,102,38],"project\u002Fcritical\u002Fdocs",[272,32,38,273,11,31],"7462177","maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fdocs",[70,172,31,206,71,38],[276,172,38,229,11,31],"7461624",[74,172,31,188,75,38],[145,172,38,229,11,31],[280,172,31,188,75,38],"7461971",[282,172,45,232,283,38],"7461712","mcphilip",[285,172,38,195,286,38],"7461781","rjtavares",[288,172,31,188,289,38],"7461909","this_user",[291,172,38,195,286,38],"7462234",[293,172,31,206,294,38],"7461770","filearts",[296,172,38,297,11,31],"7461838","maker\u002Fneutral\u002Fpricing",[299,172,45,300,294,38],"7461908","project\u002Fneutral\u002Fpricing",[302,172,38,216,209,38],"7463373",[304,172,45,257,305,38],"7461644","jmtame",[307,172,45,257,71,38],"7461794",[162,172,38,216,163,38],[310,172,31,206,311,38],"7463305","oillio",[117,313,45,314,118,38],10,"project\u002Fneutral\u002Fdocs",[121,313,38,273,11,31],[],[318,323,328,333,338,343],{"id":319,"name":320,"points":321,"category":322},"7454242","Bread Box",199,"web_saas",{"id":324,"name":325,"points":326,"category":327},"7477095","Coding Interview Practice",172,"learning_science",{"id":329,"name":330,"points":331,"category":332},"7468328","ShareDrop",165,"dev_tools",{"id":334,"name":335,"points":336,"category":337},"7435569","2048 Tetris",160,"games",{"id":339,"name":340,"points":341,"category":342},"7472982","Mogo Chat",140,"productivity",{"id":344,"name":345,"points":346,"category":347},"7442925","ngxtop",134,"infrastructure",false,"v2",{"id":351,"name":5,"line":6,"ai":348,"cat":20,"year":13,"points":14,"comments":15,"rec":28,"s":352,"top":18,"kw":353,"maker":11,"domain":10,"tier":19,"attempts":38,"strip":354,"url":9,"mix":355,"praise":-1,"objection":55,"sub":21},7461343,-0.54,[24,25,26,27],"1000110000311131111133310110113101303313",[31,32,31,33],1794036516979]