Causal (buy-to-rent model)

Finance and crypto

investment modelling

SHOW HN2019

353points
243comments
#78of 2,195 in 2019
Top 4%of 2019 by points

How HN took it

MixedNo clear lean

8 positive, 27 neutral or asking, 5 mixed, 22 critical, out of 62 comments about the project. Thread score -0.28.

Execution: 0 for, 15 againstIdea: 5 for, 7 againstDesign: 2 for, 0 against

The thread, comment by comment

Each row is a top-level comment and its replies, in HN's order. Select a cell to open that comment on HN.

positive neutral or mixed critical about another commenter or something else the maker

What HN said

What people liked

  • Clean visualisations and simple presentation.

    From 1 comment
    • Great visualizations and simple clean presentation. I tried to use a number of these simple tools to evaluate investment properties but they were usually too high level. I ended…
      granto on HN
  • Useful demo of the simulation tool.

    From 1 comment
    • This is pretty cool. One thing that feels like a serious oversight though is that it isn't factoring in taxes. Rental income is taxable income. If you depreciate the property to…
      anm89 on HN

Objections

  • Ignores inflation.

    From 2 comments
    • Calculations of this model are misleading. One hugely important parameter missing: inflation rate. This would tell us what part of that 2.1 million in 30 years is real return and…
      raviolo on HN
    • Where's inflation in this model?
      lazyjones on HN
  • Omits property tax, maintenance, vacancy and taxes.

    From 3 comments
    • This definitely is missing property tax and insurance, as well as a bucket for maintenance cost, ex, property management (8-10% monthly estimate), vacancy (5-10% monthly…
      tonywe64 on HN
    • As others have pointed out this model is oversimplified and doesn’t break out maintenance and taxes. 1% is unreasonably low for both considering that 1% is a low property tax…
      burlesona on HN
    • This is pretty cool. One thing that feels like a serious oversight though is that it isn't factoring in taxes. Rental income is taxable income. If you depreciate the property to…
      anm89 on HN
  • Appreciation and variance modelling is mathematically off.

    From 2 comments
    • The math on appreciation rate is a bit off because of how risk adds up to itself over time. For example, if you assumed 3 +/- 3% appreciation, then the calculator applies that…
      smallnamespace on HN
    • Pretty cool demo for causal.app. Feedback on the framework itself: * I found the interface to widen/narrow the variance of ranges painful to use. Why not just let me plug in an…
      usaar333 on HN
  • Ignores transaction costs and illiquidity of property.

    From 1 comment
    • As others have pointed out this model is oversimplified and doesn’t break out maintenance and taxes. 1% is unreasonably low for both considering that 1% is a low property tax…
      burlesona on HN

Requests

  • Model inflation.

    From 2 comments
    • Where's inflation in this model?
      lazyjones on HN
    • It does not seem to take either inflation or lost growth on the down-payment. These two factors have a huge impact on evaluating property against other investments. It would be…
      beejiu on HN
  • Show annual return percentage.

    From 1 comment
    • Nice. Some questions: - How are you modeling property tax payments? - Would be nice to show the annual return for the investment. You have a chart, I can read it so see whether…
      11thEarlOfMar on HN
  • Support multi-family and house hacking.

    From 1 comment
    • Hey, I really like the app and have signed up. One thing I would add is multi- family units. Even better would be the concept of "house hacking" or buying a multi-family and…
      frankbreetz on HN

Questions

  • Where is inflation in the model?

    From 1 comment
  • How is property tax modelled?

    From 1 comment
    • Nice. Some questions: - How are you modeling property tax payments? - Would be nice to show the annual return for the investment. You have a chart, I can read it so see whether…
      11thEarlOfMar on HN

Alternatives named

  • Guesstimate

    From 1 comment
    • I think this is supposed to be more about demonstrating the simulation modelling tool than about houses and rent. The tool looks like a copy of getguesstimate.com. What's new or…
      zestyping on HN
  • Spreadsheets and Excel

    From 2 comments
    • It seems the simulation just gives the upper bound and lower bound based on the input ranges. A spreadsheet model can do the same thing by running the model with different input…
      ww520 on HN
    • Great visualizations and simple clean presentation. I tried to use a number of these simple tools to evaluate investment properties but they were usually too high level. I ended…
      granto on HN
  • REITs such as VNQ

    From 2 comments
    • Any data supporting the appreciation of 4% a year? This seems socially much more acceptable to taking a loan and then invest the money in stocks for example, but to me is not…
      jgr447 on HN
    • The huge advantage of housing is that the government essentially supports infrastructure to get massive leverage. With 1:5 or 1:10 leverage, 10% appreciation with 1:10 leverage…
      achenatx on HN

Category, keywords, summaries and labels on this page were made by AI (Thread Reader v2) and not checked by hand. Each point links to the comments it came from.

Add a badge to your READMEShown on HackerShow
[![Shown on HackerShow](https://hackershow.org/badge.svg)](https://hackershow.org/show/19704418)