Rain hashes

Languages and libraries

hash function library

SHOW HN2024

79points
52comments
#988of 3,515 in 2024
Top 29%of 2024 by points

How HN took it

RoastedHalf or more of the comments are critical

1 positive, 6 neutral or asking, 0 mixed, 7 critical, out of 14 comments about the project. Thread score -0.18.

Idea: 0 for, 5 againstPerformance: 1 for, 1 againstExecution: 0 for, 1 against

The thread, comment by comment

Each row is a top-level comment and its replies, in HN's order. Select a cell to open that comment on HN.

positive neutral or mixed critical about another commenter or something else the maker

What HN said

What people liked

  • Fastest 128-bit and 256-bit non-crypto hash and passes all SMHasher3 tests

    From 2 comments
    • The fastest 128-bit and 256-bit non-crypto hash, passes all tests, and under 140 source lines of code Nice!
      mrbluecoat on HN
    • This is my hash included in the best hash testing library out there "SMHasher3" maintained by Frank T Wojcik: https://gitlab.com/fwojcik/smhasher3 This test lib has many…
      keepamovin on HN
  • Under 140 lines of source code

    From 1 comment
    • This is my hash included in the best hash testing library out there "SMHasher3" maintained by Frank T Wojcik: https://gitlab.com/fwojcik/smhasher3 This test lib has many…
      keepamovin on HN

Objections

  • Rainstorm cryptographic claims are unvetted and the use case is unclear

    From 3 comments
    • Broadly: I don't understand the design space of "cryptographic-ish" hashes. There's an intensely competitive design space of cryptographic hashes. What does it mean to be "more…
      tptacek on HN
    • No immune response! Making new things and posting them is an absolute good thing. I'm literally asking, straight up: what's the use case for a hash that is "more secure" than an…
      tptacek on HN
    • I'd be happy to if I understood better why someone would want to undertake that project, which is why I asked. There is an enormous literature on cryptographic hashing; where…
      tptacek on HN
  • Benchmarks measure startup time rather than the hash

    From 1 comment
    • The benchmarks are bogus at the least, you are essentially just measuring the startup time of the executable/runtime and not your hash function.
      zokier on HN
  • Fails to integrate into SMHasher2 with collisions

    From 1 comment
    • I failed to integrate it into my smhasher, the rain branch. Lots of collisions and wrong results all over. Pretty fragile for a workday
      rurban on HN

Requests

  • Explain the use case for a hash more secure than non-crypto but less vetted than crypto

    From 2 comments
    • Broadly: I don't understand the design space of "cryptographic-ish" hashes. There's an intensely competitive design space of cryptographic hashes. What does it mean to be "more…
      tptacek on HN
    • No immune response! Making new things and posting them is an absolute good thing. I'm literally asking, straight up: what's the use case for a hash that is "more secure" than an…
      tptacek on HN
  • Explain why xxHash is classed as failing in SMHasher3

    From 1 comment
    • So, questions for people that know more than I: What's up with the 'passing' and 'failing' hashes in SMHasher3? Specifically, what happened to xxHash[1] to kick it down to the…
      thadt on HN

Questions

  • Where does rainstorm fit in the cryptographic hash literature

    From 1 comment
    • I'd be happy to if I understood better why someone would want to undertake that project, which is why I asked. There is an enormous literature on cryptographic hashing; where…
      tptacek on HN
  • Is the list of good primes available

    From 1 comment
    • I am using fnv-1a to hash Objective-C method selectors, which are generally just identifier characters and zero or multiple ':'. At the time of my research, fnv-1a had the least…
      mulle_nat on HN

Alternatives named

  • fnv-1a

    From 1 comment
    • I am using fnv-1a to hash Objective-C method selectors, which are generally just identifier characters and zero or multiple ':'. At the time of my research, fnv-1a had the least…
      mulle_nat on HN
  • UMASH

    From 2 comments
    • Spooky also has some good results on common identifiers. But fnv-1a is in a completely different league. It's recommended for hash tables with other security measures than hash…
      rurban on HN
    • Note that you said “likely” and not “equally likely”. Therein lies your answer. There are applications where hashes are used as identifiers, where it would be impossible to use…
      cstrahan on HN
  • SipHash

    From 1 comment
    • Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, I think that your intent is that rainbow is / should be treated as cryptographically weaker than SIPhash, right? (despite both of…
      dgacmu on HN
  • xxHash

    From 1 comment
    • So, questions for people that know more than I: What's up with the 'passing' and 'failing' hashes in SMHasher3? Specifically, what happened to xxHash[1] to kick it down to the…
      thadt on HN
  • Spooky

    From 1 comment
    • Spooky also has some good results on common identifiers. But fnv-1a is in a completely different league. It's recommended for hash tables with other security measures than hash…
      rurban on HN

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